{"id":569,"date":"2020-02-25T18:48:00","date_gmt":"2020-02-25T16:48:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/arc.dev\/employer-blog\/?p=569"},"modified":"2025-06-11T12:30:49","modified_gmt":"2025-06-11T04:30:49","slug":"how-to-regain-productivity-remote-team-ken-weary","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/arc.dev\/employer-blog\/how-to-regain-productivity-remote-team-ken-weary\/","title":{"rendered":"How to Regain Productivity in Your Remote Team: Ken Weary of Hotjar"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<p>Today we have Ken Weary, VP of Operations at\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/www.hotjar.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Hotjar<\/a>!<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>In this episode, we talked about the reason why Hotjar prefers asynchronous communication, why software tools aren\u2019t as important, and the \u201cTribes\u201d system Hotjar uses in project ownership.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>We also talked about Hotjar\u2019s onboarding process, meeting culture, documentation principles, and why being a self-starter is the number one attribute to have as a remote worker.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you\u2019re enjoying the podcast, please consider leaving a review on\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/outside-the-valley\/id1481937930?ign-mpt=uo%3D4\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">iTunes<\/a>!<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>The podcast is also available on your favourite players:\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/outside-the-valley\/id1481937930?ign-mpt=uo%3D4\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">iTunes<\/a>,\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.google.com\/?feed=aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy50cmFuc2lzdG9yLmZtL291dHNpZGUtdGhlLXZhbGxleQ%3D%3D&hl=en-TW\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Google Podcast<\/a>,\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/castro.fm\/podcast\/5a2c6978-e8e7-4f02-a47d-ca3474778329\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Castro<\/a>,\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/overcast.fm\/itunes1481937930\/outside-the-valley\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Overcast<\/a>,\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/5qzXgcHzieXIRtXglSmUE8?si=rMPobXZtQwSU0wQ3grTAxA\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Spotify<\/a>,\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/www.stitcher.com\/podcast\/outside-the-valley\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Stitcher<\/a>,\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/player.fm\/series\/outside-the-valley\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Player.fm<\/a>, and\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/tunein.com\/podcasts\/Technology-Podcasts\/Outside-The-Valley-p1251704\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Tune In<\/a>.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Follow us on\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/arcdotdev\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Twitter<\/a>\u00a0to get updates.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Looking for top talent fast? See how <\/em><a href=\"https:\/\/arc.dev\/\">Arc<\/a><em> can help you:<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>\u26a1\ufe0f Find developers, designers, marketers, and more<br>\u26a1\ufe0f Freelance or full-time remote + fully vetted<\/em><em><br>\u26a1\ufe0f Save up to 80% with global hires<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/arc.dev\"><strong>Hire top talent with Arc risk-free \u2192<\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"topics-also-covered-on-the-podcast-episode%3A\">Topics also covered on the podcast episode:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\"><li>How Ken and his spouse manage their children\u2019s education while being digital nomads<\/li><li>Why Hotjar decided to always default to\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/arc.dev\/blog\/asynchronous-communication-synchronous-communication-remote-teams-801g1dr4pt\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">asynchronous communication<\/a>\u00a0whenever possible<\/li><li>How Hotjar realized that productivity was going down<\/li><li>Hotjar\u2019s meeting culture and requirements<\/li><li>How Hotjar\u2019s utilizes the \u201cTribes\u201d system in project ownership<\/li><li>Why being a self-starter is important as a remote worker<\/li><li>Hotjar\u2019s onboarding process and documentation principles<\/li><\/ul>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"mentioned-resources%3A\">Mentioned resources:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\"><li><a href=\"http:\/\/hotjar.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Hotjar<\/a><\/li><li><a href=\"http:\/\/runningremote.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Running Remote<\/a><\/li><li><a href=\"http:\/\/weworkremotely.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">WeWorkRemotely<\/a><\/li><li><a href=\"http:\/\/slido.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Slido<\/a><\/li><li><a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/daviddarmanin?lang=en\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">David Darmannin, CEO of Hotjar<\/a><\/li><li><a href=\"http:\/\/trello.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Trello<\/a><\/li><li><a href=\"https:\/\/hotjar.atlassian.net\/wiki\/spaces\/REC\/pages\/269942983\/Team+Manual+Public\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Hotjar Team Manual<\/a><\/li><li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.atlassian.com\/software\/confluence\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Confluence<\/a><\/li><li><a href=\"https:\/\/arc.dev\/blog\/podcast-ep16-meetedgar-laura-roeder-8mmxejpo4b\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Laura Roeder of MeetEdgar \u2013 Build a Company That Doesn\u2019t Need You<\/a><\/li><li><a href=\"https:\/\/careers.hotjar.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Hotjar is hiring!<\/a><\/li><li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/kenweary\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Ken\u2019s LinkedIn<\/a><\/li><\/ul>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"full-transcript%3A\">Full transcript:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Jovian:<\/strong>\u00a0Hey, and welcome to another episode of \u201cOutside The Valley,\u201d a podcast by Arc, the remote hiring platform that helps you hire remote software engineers and teams easily. In this podcast, we interview remote startup leaders, remote work advocates, and workers of distributed teams who thrive outside of Silicon Valley. I\u2019m your host, Jovian Gautama. And as you have noticed, we\u2019re trying out this new intro format so we can directly get to the conversation.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>And today we are joined by someone from a company I really love, you\u2019re also a customer, actually, which is Hotjar, a powerful analytics tool that reveals the online behavior and voice of your users. The Hotjar team is 100% distributed. And other than having a great product, it\u2019s also one of the companies I really admire when it comes to transparency, team management and, of course, company culture. You can see it reflected on their brand and how they are customer-obsessed. And here with us today is none other than Hotjar\u2019s VP of Operation, Ken Weary. Ken, welcome to the show.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Ken:<\/strong>\u00a0Awesome. Thank you very much. It\u2019s a pleasure to be here.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Jovian:<\/strong>\u00a0So, as I\u2019ve mentioned to you before, we\u2019ve met briefly, so I listened to your talk in the Running Remote conference. And I was super fascinated by, you know, how you explained the process and internal process in Hotjar and the philosophy behind it. So, I\u2019d love to dive into that a bit more in this chat. But first of all, can you share a bit more about yourself, and actually, how did you get to join Hotjar?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Ken:<\/strong>\u00a0Awesome. Yeah, happy to. So, I joined Hotjar about three and a half years ago. I was at the time living in Mexico, vacationing in [inaudible]. So, I am a digital nomad myself. For the past five and a half years I\u2019ve been on the road. And what makes me a little bit more unique than others is that I also travel with my family.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I travel with my wife and two kids. I have a 14-year-old daughter and a 10-year-old son and together we\u2019ve been traveling for more than half of my son\u2019s life. And so I\u2019ve been working as an independent contractor for more than two years and had seen an advertisement for Hotjar on WeWorkRemotely when they were seeking VP of Operations. And it was a good match with my skill set and experience based on prior gigs that weren\u2019t remote. And I applied for it, got to know the founding team, and the rest became history.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Jovian:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. And you mentioned about how you are slightly different because you travel with your family. And this is one of the things that we actually never really talk about in this podcast, but I\u2019m super curious about that. Let\u2019s just start with this first.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>So, in your talk, you mentioned that you were traveling with your child, right. And I think I\u2019ve heard from a lot of people that one of the challenges when you\u2019re in a digital nomad lifestyle is when you have a family. What about their education and whatnot? So, I\u2019d love to understand more about that. So, now you\u2019re traveling with your child. Can you share with me, like, how do you guys manage when it comes to their education and their lifestyle? I wonder how you and your family deal with that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Ken:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, absolutely. So, I\u2019m very fortunate because my partner, my wife is an educator. So she\u2019s extremely comfortable with being their school, their principal, their teacher. And so she\u2019s been leading their education as a homeschool parent. And my full-time job is Hotjar, her full-time job is teaching. And so that said, we approach teaching from the aspect of my wife does direct instruction, of course, for core subjects of math and reading, writing history, so forth, but we use the two other resources to supplement that, the first of which is our travels.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>So, when we\u2019re traveling to new area, there\u2019s no better way to really understand the history and the culture and different aspects than to expose them to that locally. And so because of that, and whether that\u2019s visiting museums or battlegrounds or art galleries, they\u2019ve seen some amazing things. The Parthenon and Acropolis in Athens, or the pyramids in Giza.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>And there\u2019s a lot more that they can experience from an education perspective from actually, you know, crawling inside the Great Pyramid of Giza than just reading about it in a book. And so we supplement education with the real-world experiences that they have. And additionally, another huge resource that we use is the internet, of course.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>My daughter is getting into subjects now that my wife is not an expert on, and so whether that\u2019s my daughter\u2019s interested in genetics and chemistry. And so there are phenomenal courses online for whatever the interest of the child is or whatever the interest of the teacher needing to supplement is. So, that\u2019s very much how we manage.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Jovian:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. That is amazing. Actually, this podcast interview is just like a scheme for me so you can adopt me as your child. I\u2019m just kidding. But yeah, and I think this is something that increasing that I feel like is rarely talked about. When it comes to the lifestyle of digital nomad or even remote workers like the child education, like, there\u2019s so much there to explore, especially in the age of internet, right? You don\u2019t really need to be binded by the traditional curriculum and sense.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Ken:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh, no. Not at all. I mean, and the resources available online, I would make the case are\u2026in a lot of cases can be much more customized and personalized to the learner.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>For instance, my daughter loves Harry Potter and she was interested in genetics. And online is a highly rated Harry Potter for genetics, a course where they actually look at genetic traits amongst different Harry Potter characters based on JK Rowling\u2019s books. I mean, right down the alley of my daughter who\u2019s salivating for this course and took it, loved it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>And there\u2019s just different unique ways of teaching that I didn\u2019t have available to me when I was in traditional schools. And my wife wouldn\u2019t have the creative juices to be able to deliver that, but somebody else does and we can tap into that for a reasonable fee.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Jovian:<\/strong>\u00a0Harry Potter for genetics, you cannot be any more niche than that. Right. So, yeah.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Now, I want to talk with you more about what comes a lot in this podcast about communication. And there\u2019s also a big theme in Hotjar, and not only Hotjar, in remote work, in general, you know, meeting culture, team culture, as in communication and so on. So, I want to talk about communication first.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>As we kind of know there are two thoughts when it comes to communication and remote teams, and they are like async and synchronous, right? And some people swear by async and other people, \u201cNope. Async don\u2019t work. We need, like, FaceTime, like, routinely.\u201d And correct me if I\u2019m wrong, but I feel like Hotjar\u2019s communication mode is leaning toward the async where you can give each other Slack. And I realized that, of course, there\u2019s no right or wrong. It all depends on the setup of the company. But I wonder in Hotjar itself, what was it like that made you, guys, realize that, \u201cHey, async is, like, the best for us.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Ken:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. So, I think you\u2019re absolutely right, we do lean async. We don\u2019t have a hard and fast, you know, \u201cthou shall not jump on a call\u201d kind of rule, but sometimes they\u2019re needed, but we want to always try to default to async because if you\u2026 What led us down this path is about a year ago we were like, \u201cOh, wow. Everybody is so busy.\u201d Our productivity was starting to drag and we knew we had a great team. We knew we had a lot of talent, but we weren\u2019t moving as fast as we had previously.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so one of the really big keys to understanding that was we started pulling up people\u2019s calendars, right? We have open calendars and Hotjar, as you mentioned, we\u2019re extremely transparent. And as you start looking at calendars, you just see these either blocks of time of, you know, 69 minutes long or litany of, you know, 15-minute, 20-minute meetings all scattered throughout somebody\u2019s calendar and it became very clear of, \u201cWow. This person has no ability to flow in their day.\u201d They\u2019re not able to really sync with the stuff that\u2019s hot and heavy on their plate.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\"><p>And so it led us to examine that a bit more, find out what was driving all of these micro meetings. And it was clear that what was doing it was we\u2019d started to default to the aspect of, \u201cOh, I have a question. Let\u2019s jump on a call,\u201d as opposed to, \u201cI have a question. Let me throw it in an email or a Slack message that can be responded at whenever the person is truly available to tackle it.\u201d<\/p><\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Jovian:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. You mentioned that the team realized that it started to drag down productivity, like, a year ago, right? How did you discover that? How did you realize that, \u201cOkay. Productivity is going down\u201d? What were the symptoms or signs? Because I feel like in a lot of companies like people feel like they\u2019re slightly unproductive but they don\u2019t know, like, if it\u2019s\u2026they don\u2019t know how to tell it to people. I wonder what you guys did to detect those kind of things.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Ken:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. The biggest thing was we\u2019d started to miss a lot of our internal forecast for projects being done. So, we\u2019re not hardcore on, \u201cThis is gonna be shipped and done by this date and launched,\u201d because things always get more complex or you might have an emergency for customers and things get derailed. But we do put target dates on things or target, \u201cBy the end of this quarter, we will have done this.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>And one of the things that\u2019s extremely important to us is we work in an agile environment, and so we\u2019re constantly doing retros to take a look at, \u201cHey, how did we do last quarter?\u201d And so as we did a quarterly retro, it became clear of, \u201cWow. We thought we would have been much further along on our roadmap by now than we are. Why is that?\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>And then it began to go into a root cause analysis to say, \u201cWhat\u2019s going on here?\u201d And the calendar was really kind of the glaring thing that jumped out at us to say, \u201cWow, here\u2019s a really good example as to why some of our really key resources were getting bogged down.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Jovian:<\/strong>\u00a0Got it. Got it. So, after you discovered the main issue of the whole thing, what were the next steps that you guys did to mitigate all of this, which I think like started the movement to be more async?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Ken:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. And to be fair, it was much more of a reminder to go async. We\u2019ve always tried to be an async aspect, but over time you lose focus on that or maybe you realize you need more focus on it. And so really, kind of the next thing that came about were twofold. Number one, we updated what we call our weekly schedule.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>So, across Hotjar, even though we\u2019re agile, we do propose a lot of things to the team of, \u201cHey, consider working in this manner.\u201d So, our CEO created a really nice post that we put out to all team members that said, \u201cHey, think about organizing your week this way. And so let\u2019s front-load meetings on Monday so we can kick things off and with planning, and one on ones were needed so you get that running and the team has a really good cadence throughout the week.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>And let\u2019s also make sure that we don\u2019t overburden ourselves with meetings beyond that. So, let\u2019s think, you know, scrum-based, you know, time-boxed and efficient daily check-ins from teams, but let\u2019s also look to make sure that we protect the aspects of really deep work.\u201d And so proposing different chunks for that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\"><p>One of the things that we recommend to the team is consider a Wednesday meeting-free. Meeting-free Wednesday. Let\u2019s not get together and have meetings unless, of course, you really absolutely need to.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p>And so I\u2019ll probably on any given Wednesday only have one meeting and the rest is for my deep work. And so we publish this, we talk about it to the team in both synchronous and asynchronous aspects to make sure that it begins to be much more part of our DNA and reminding, and then we also incorporated that back into our onboarding as well.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>So, when new team members join, this is another thing that we noticed because we\u2019ve had a lot of really good growth in size of our team. One new team member joining who is continuously pinging people on Slack looking for real-time answers, when that begins to be very disruptive, and that can be a little bit contagious, right? And so one of the things we did is let\u2019s make sure during onboarding, we reinforce this to people, make sure they know that, \u201cHey, you\u2019re new, you may forget this. It\u2019s all right. But always default back to this type of thinking.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Jovian:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. There\u2019s a lot there that I want to unpack slowly because it\u2019s related to hiring, onboarding, documentation and just like company culture in general. But I think I remember you shared this last year in Hotjar. Like you mentioned, there\u2019s this kind of like\u2026 It sort of relates to the post that you mentioned. So, Monday is meeting\u2019s day and Wednesday is like no meeting day. So it\u2019s more like a general guideline. Am I correct?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Ken:<\/strong>\u00a0That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Jovian:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. Yeah. That is fantastic. One of the things\u2026 I just remembered. One of the things that I find interesting because people\u2026some people thought the\u2026when it comes to async versus sync it\u2019s the tools that you use, but it\u2019s not. It\u2019s really just because the process\u2026 This is an analogy that I always remember. Can you share that? The drunk driving.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Ken:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. A lot of people love to talk about tools and especially remote work individuals love to talk about tools. What are you using for X? What are you using for Y? And I hate that question because I think it\u2019s looking at the problem, the symptom or actually the objective in the wrong way because there\u2019s an old saying, \u201cA fool with a tool is still a fool.\u201d Right? If you start with something that\u2026if you start with thinking about what is it that I need to solve a problem and you go straight to a tool, you\u2019re going to miss the key requirements for actually ensuring it\u2019s fixed.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>And I think the analogy I shared at Running Remote was if a drunk driver gets arrested and you ask what kind of car they were driving, that\u2019s completely irrelevant. It\u2019s that the bone head had too much to drink and decided to get in the car, it\u2019s what he did or he or she did that was actually the mistake. And so it\u2019s important that you look at things from a process perspective of how are you going to use a tool.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\"><p>So, you can use Slack asynchronously and use it to save threads and to look at follow-ups from that perspective, or you can look at it as a real-time synchronous tool that is highly effective or disruptive. It really depends upon your process and how you encourage people to use it.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Jovian:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. I gotta confess, even us, like, we found that crap a couple of times, basically, the shiny new object syndrome, \u201cHey, this is cool. Should we try using this?\u201d And then we even subscribe to it for a couple of\u2026 And then nope, nobody using it and then just\u2026 That\u2019s a couple of dollars, a couple of hundred dollars down the drain. It happens.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>So, I also want to talk about\u2026 We\u2019ve talked about meetings. Now, I want to talk about the meeting culture itself in Hotjar. I think there\u2019s a lot of people, companies that still struggle to have effective meeting. So, what is the meeting culture like in Hotjar? Is it some kind of certain guideline of how you should do meetings to save time and then to be making more effective?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Ken:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. So much like we talked about before of we believe in guidelines, right? So, every team, every function, every meeting may have a different objective or different personality and how it\u2019s run. There are some teams that will utilize Trello during the meeting or other teams that will utilize Asana during the meeting.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\"><p>So, what we\u2019ve said is, let\u2019s go back to what are the core requirements of a meeting? Number one, it\u2019s got to have a true purpose and agenda. So, if you don\u2019t have a true purpose and agenda, you shouldn\u2019t schedule a meeting and even more so you should never accept the invite for that meeting. So, it needs to have a clear objective.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p>And I decline meetings on occasion because a team member doesn\u2019t put in there what it is that the agenda is about. What are we trying to cover? I\u2019m not talking about, like, \u201cHey, for 10 minutes we\u2019re gonna cover this, and then 5 minutes this. We\u2019re not talking about uber-detail, but what are the objectives of the meeting? We\u2019re gonna talk about these three things and we\u2019re going to come with a decision on them.\u201d Okay. That\u2019s an agenda. So that\u2019s number one.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>And then number two, it\u2019s, it should only have the minimum number of participants that are required. So, don\u2019t invite the whole team just because they might be interested. Oftentimes, that creates the aspect of what\u2019s characterized as FOMO, right? \u201cI\u2019ve been invited to this meeting. I got a fear of missing out. I\u2019m going to make sure that I attend it.\u201d So, only invite those that are truly required.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you think it\u2019s good for other informational purposes, record it. Record it on Zoom and share it out to other people. Therefore, if they are really concerned about it or really super interested, they can get caught up on it. So, those are kind of the two parameters that we have as core requirements for any meeting at Hotjar. Beyond that, again, we leave it really up to the people and to the topic as to what\u2019s required or what\u2019s the best way to run that meeting.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Jovian:<\/strong>\u00a0Does Hotjar do, like, all-hands meeting, company all-hands meeting?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Ken:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. So, each week we actually do one.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Jovian:<\/strong>\u00a0I see.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Ken:<\/strong>\u00a0We call it our weekly release meeting. So, what the purpose of this meeting is, it\u2019s an hour every Friday and it is recorded for those that have a conflict or perhaps out of the office. And the purpose of it is to keep the entire team abreast of the changes that are occurring within our environment. And we\u2019ve talked about moving this async, but we\u2019re not quite ready to do it yet. It\u2019s actually part of our culture, part of our cadence that we have as a company.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Every Friday, since we work in an agile environment, each team, whether you\u2019re an engineering team, involved in front-end, back-end or you\u2019re in our marketing team, you have shipped something for the week. And it\u2019s the ability for you to highlight what is shipped if it is notable. It\u2019s not required that every team present because perhaps you\u2019re working on a multi-sprint release. That\u2019s fine. But you\u2019ll probably present the next week or the week after because your work will build.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so we wanna make sure that we\u2019re really ingrained in the aspect of always be shipping, always be improving. And so it\u2019s the ability for each team to share that. So we do that each week. And then once a month we have an all-hands meeting that involves looking in a very transparent way, \u201cHow did the company perform last month? Let\u2019s look at our KPIs and key metrics, share that with every team member.\u201d And then give them the ability to, in an AMA format, ask questions to executives about our performance and why something was unexpectedly good or why something didn\u2019t happen according to our forecast.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Jovian:<\/strong>\u00a0Got it. Is the AMA like anonymous or it\u2019s just like everyone on Zoom can just raise their hand and ask question?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Ken:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. What we found is now that the company\u2026 Hotjar now has more than 100 team members. If we leave it for open mics and talking and raising hands, we\u2019re probably going to miss somebody. And especially people have common questions. So, we use the tool Slido to be able to do\u2026 So people can submit questions either named or anonymous, but we encourage the names perspective as part of our transparent culture to do that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>But notice the way I described it too, right? Slido is what we use, but first thing I did is describe why we can\u2019t use Zoom and raising hands and open mics, talking. So, it\u2019s really important to always look at, you know, break down what the problem is, then come up with a solution.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Jovian:<\/strong>\u00a0Great. Yeah, that\u2019s fantastic. So, related to the weekly sprint and the agile culture that Hotjar adopts. As far as I know Hotjar utilized the tribe system when it comes to proc development and probably some marketing. As far as I know, people call it different names, tribes, squads. And can you elaborate a bit more? And how does Hotjar use tribes and utilize it? And how does it work?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Ken:<\/strong>\u00a0Cool. So, what I\u2019ll describe is what\u2019s in place now and what I described at Running Remote was an earlier iteration. So, we\u2019re always evolving and changing as we look at this. But the purpose is still the same, which is, this kind of came about more than a year ago at Hotjar where we were looking at, \u201cHey, what are the things we want to address at Hotjar? We want to address onboarding. We want customers to be onboarded in the best possible way as they first joined Hotjar. Well, we want people to regularly utilize our service and get more value. Okay.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Well, who owns that? And who owns onboarding at Hotjar? And is that marketing because they helped acquire the customer? Is it engineering because they\u2019re building the product or is it customer success because they want our customers utilize it more?\u201d And we had an ownership problem. And so what we began to realize is, actually, yes, all of them own onboarding, but how do you address that so that you\u2019re making the most direct benefit to our customers at the same time?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\"><p>And so what we did is began to align people in what we\u2019ve called \u201ctribes\u201d. And now we have two tribes. And the tribes are focused on the user journey, the front-end journey, and then the consistent nurturing of the customers to stay with us. Beneath those tribes is a second structure called squads. And so within the squads are even more discreet areas of ownership.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Jovian:<\/strong>\u00a0I see.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Ken:<\/strong>\u00a0And across these tribes, they\u2019re multi-disciplinary, they involve our engineering team, our product managers, our marketing and customer support as well so that we have direct line of sight as to who is engaged as a micro-team, a squad, or a tribe. What areas of our customer journey? And we found it to be a lot more direct and clear as to ownership and areas of improvement. That\u2019s definitely still a work in progress as we continue to evolve and tweak that, but it\u2019s getting much better.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Jovian:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. I\u2019m just curious. So, on the tribes itself, so, like you mentioned, there\u2019s probably a couple of people from different teams that is responsible for the onboarding on a certain way, right? Engineers, design, and marketing. So, in that tribe itself, who is this decision-maker, usually? Who has the last word, so to speak?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Ken:<\/strong>\u00a0It depends on the size of the issue.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Jovian:<\/strong>\u00a0I see.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Ken:<\/strong>\u00a0We do look for our product managers to play an extremely strong role in the leadership of this. And so, more so than anyone, they make the majority of the decisions, not obviously in isolation, they work with a team in doing so, but when it comes to, \u201cAll right. What\u2019s gonna get the most attention from our users and provide them the most benefit? Are we gonna do A or B?\u201d They are responsible for making sure that the decision is made in the most successful-driven, data-driven perspective possible, and so they tend to make most of those decisions.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Obviously, if it\u2019s a longer-term strategic decision and that then moves up the chain to more of an executive decision, but as far as the regular improvements along the roadmap that\u2019s planned, it tends to be our product managers.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Jovian:<\/strong>\u00a0Got it. Yeah, that totally makes sense. So, I wanna move on a bit into the Hotjar\u2019s hiring and onboarding process. So, this is one of my most favorite topic because it\u2019s really hard. And people have different, like, ideas in how to approach, so I\u2019m just curious.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Okay. For Hotjar itself, as far as\u2026and especially when it comes to remote team, you have to be good at hiring because if it\u2019s a bus, it\u2019s really\u2026 Sometimes it takes longer to find out because you\u2019re not in the same place. So, I wonder in terms of\u2026 Let\u2019s start from hiring. Do you think there\u2019s anything on the hiring face that makes Hotjar just a bit special or different compared to other remote companies?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Ken:<\/strong>\u00a0I would say if I could re-characterize the question a little bit, I don\u2019t believe that there is a fundamental difference in how remote companies should operate and how a physical company should operate. I believe that the same symptoms of failure exist in both.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\"><p>The beauty of remote is you can fail faster, which I view as a gift because you have the ability, if you structure it right, to actually further things in a much quicker way.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p>But I think that the benefits and drawbacks from a hiring perspective are very much the same. So, at Hotjar, the way we do recruitment is the same way that if I were to work in a brick and mortar business tomorrow, I would encourage that we look at it the exact same way because you get to more of the true working dynamics and company culture match quicker, in my opinion. So, does that make sense? And I can dive into how we do it?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Jovian:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes. I think it kind of makes sense, especially on the remote company. Now that I think about it, I think in my opinion, like, in remote companies, I think there\u2019s more emphasize on not your resume, but it\u2019s more like, are you a self-starter? I feel like there\u2019s, like, the theme that you have because resume sometimes, it\u2019s hard to identify if it\u2019s a good figure or a bad.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Ken:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh, absolutely.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Jovian:<\/strong>\u00a0If you are a self-starter as in, like, \u201cOh, I\u2019ve created a podcast on the side project. I do meetups.\u201d And that is a big sign. Okay. How about\u2026 Let\u2019s say\u2026 What are the biggest characteristics when it comes to culture fit when you\u2019re looking for people in Hotjar?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Ken:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. So, Hotjar has five core values. And what we try to do with that as part of our interview process is making sure that there is mapping to the core values. To your point, I fully, fully agree with you that there is\u2026 One of our\u2026 Well, two of our core values relate to what you said of, you know, \u201cHey, do they have something going on in the side? Are they doing things?\u201d which is, number one, one of our core values is always be learning.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>So, are they doing something to further themselves whether that\u2019s completely unrelated to the job? That\u2019s totally cool, right? What are they doing to show that they are contributing to their own learning? Are they a lifelong learner? Right?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\"><p>Are they learning something outside of their core skill set and domain because that tells you that they\u2019re obviously the type of people who are passionate about getting better about something even if it doesn\u2019t relate to their to their job. That\u2019s fine. Trust me, it bleeds over.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p>And then the other one, another core value that generally is embedded within that is we have a core value of \u201cBe bold and move fast.\u201d So, are you showing incremental improvements in doing so or is it, \u201cNo, I\u2019m working on this uber-long doctorate that, you know, is going to take forever,\u201d granted that is showing the lifelong learner, but how are you approaching that uber-long doctorate? What is your path for incremental improvements across the board to get that done?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so diving into that, whether that\u2019s, you know, a doctorate or whether that is focused on much like you said, of, like, \u201cHey, I\u2019m going to these conferences, doing these meetups,\u201d and, you know, where you see all these incremental aspects of growth as well. So, looking at them together is really important for us and so you begin to see that, you know, there is a culture match from that perspective of, if it is looking at things at a very large perspective, it probably means that an individual might not move as quickly and as fast as we\u2019d like to move. We\u2019re very high-paced in that environment.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Jovian:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. Yeah, totally. I think you frame it really well. Is there like an incremental steps of these, stuff? Like if there\u2019s a big project, like, are they able to kind of, like, \u201cOkay. This is step one, the next step that I can do in the next five minutes, for example.\u201d And you want to see that kind of clarity because getting back to the theme of remote work is that sometimes not everyone can help you and guide you to what to do next.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Sometimes you have to be able to find it out for yourself and then try to break down the big picture to more smaller slices. And it doesn\u2019t mean that this is not important for non-remote companies, but as you said, it\u2019s even much more important\u2026 At least in my opinion, it\u2019s even much more important when you\u2019re working remotely, especially when you\u2019re looking for remote jobs because nobody can control you in a way.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Ken:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. No. It\u2019s funny that you say that. So, when I was looking for\u2026when I was going through the interview process with Hotjar three and a half years ago, our CEO and founder, David, even told me that one of the things that attracted him to me was the aspect that I was a traveler and that I was constantly traveling and having to figure out how to constantly move throughout the world, not just with myself but with my family and figuring out whether that\u2019s immigration or travel or language or culture was and still is part of how I am a lifelong learner shows an adaptiveness to change, the ability to be flexible. And so from these perspectives these are characteristics that mapped for him mapped me to the culture. And so there\u2019s\u2026 You can do it in a bazillion different ways, right? It\u2019s what is it you\u2019re into and how does that display?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Jovian:<\/strong>\u00a0Right. Yeah, yeah. Definitely. Definitely. And so I want to move on a bit to the next phase. After hiring, of course, after you find the right person, you onboard them. So, this is a big issue even in complicated companies. Sometimes even us, sometimes we still have that issue. For example, where do I find this document? That\u2019s this onboarding. We\u2019re getting better at that, but there\u2019s some small tweak that we still have to make. So, can you share a bit? So, when someone just joined Hotjar, this is their first day, what was the onboarding process like?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Ken:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. So, we start our onboarding from the day somebody signed to contract with us. So, if you signed a contract with us and you\u2019re gonna join in two months because you\u2019re leaving another job or taking a break in between, really, from our internal perspective, onboarding has started which means that, A, we need to get you information about whether that\u2019s for if you\u2019re gonna become an employee of Hotjar, and then we employee in three different countries.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>What are the benefits and perks that they need to get signed up for payroll? Getting that setup upfront is extremely helpful, but also it means that we want you\u2026 Because when day one starts, we want your account setup, we want you to start to hit the ground running with the computer at home that is secure and meets our security requirements. So, we need to get a computer order for you as soon as possible.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so one of the things that we do is we provide at Hotjar a \u20ac5,000 home-office budget. And so from that perspective, it gives the ability to order the computer that\u2026 I\u2019m sorry, 3,000. Five, three. Yeah. So you need to order the laptop that you want. We give the ability and freedom to the team members to order a laptop that works for them whether that\u2019s a Mac or a Windows device, whether that\u2019s\u2026pick your brand.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>We have some security requirements that we have for all devices and some minimum specs, but for the most part if you\u2019re a Windows gal or a Mac guy, it doesn\u2019t matter, order what sees fit. Because we hire in so many different countries, it means that it also may take a while for it to ship to you. You may have to get caught up in taxation or anything like that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>So, it\u2019s important that we start our onboarding at that time because on day one, we want you to start with your computer, open it up, and then that\u2019s when the onboarding truly takes place from a more visible perspective, but it\u2019s important that behind the scenes a lot of stuff start before.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>So, day one it involves really setting up a litany of accounts. So, we use more than 100 different SaaS-based tools. And in order to have access to all the important process documentation or the collaboration or anything like that, you need to have access to the tools. And so a new team member will have quite a bit of setup to do from that perspective.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\"><p>Our expectation is for their first week that they\u2019re not doing their job. Their job is to actually learn about our environment.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p>And so we have an onboarding Trello board that every team member is assigned and they go through it step by step to learn about the company, to get introductions to different team members, to review our processes, to set up different accounts.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>And there\u2019s a lot to learn, right? To learn about our tech stack, to learn about, you know, how our devs work, to learn about, you know, active backlogs and where they exist, and how to get access to them. And so there\u2019s a huge exposure to that. And that\u2019s week one.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Week two is really, once you\u2019re over some of the standard operational things, then it gets into much more of a department onboarding. And so the engineers have a particular onboarding beyond the company onboarding. So, week one is more company onboarding, week two is more departmental onboarding. And so there\u2019s a process that we have across every department.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Some departments have\u2026their onboarding may last several weeks. So, we\u2019ll pair our engineers together, there will be shadowing. Same thing on customer support, let\u2019s shadow the new team members, let\u2019s teach them our ethos and our tone of voice with customers that we have consistency and regularity, but also the ability for them to add their own personality. And so we do that across the board.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Jovian:<\/strong>\u00a0Wow. Yeah. I\u2019m amazed by, like, what you say, like, onboarding starts from\u2026the onboarding starts from day one even, though, they have, like, two months gap between when they sign the contract and then they start the job. I never heard of anything like this, actually. And, yeah. I mean, this is just sometimes a logistic thing that\u2019s unsexy in a way, but I\u2026<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Ken:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, yeah. Yeah.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Jovian:<\/strong>\u00a0And this is, like, the operations thing, so people like you are the one that makes this happen, it\u2019s so great. Which leads me to our next question, more like the topic that I wanna talk about is documentation, especially the Hotjar\u2019s team manual. I actually found this by accident even before I reached out to you. I totally forgot, but I\u2019m just surprised that\u2026 Okay. These are the team manual and I think you guys use Confluence for that. By the way, for listeners, you can find it in the show notes and you can, like\u2026 It\u2019s very thorough. And there are things that I didn\u2019t even realize that, yeah, you should write this down.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>The one that stand out is like how you should use the company\u2019s laptop, right? How you use a company laptop, but there\u2019s no such thing as the thorough, okay, what you can do and what you cannot do. So, I want to talk a bit about\u2026 How did you go about approaching this whole gigantic thing about documentation because I think a lot of remote companies are not good at it because either they\u2019re too lazy or they don\u2019t know how to document a certain stuff. I\u2019m just curious, like, what are the basic principle that you guys have when it comes to documentation across teams?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Ken:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. So, like you said, we use Confluence. And Confluence is a knowledge-based tool which\u2026 So, when we look at that as to say, if there is a process, if there is a procedure, if there is something that needs to be a decision that has permanence, is permanent as anything is, and I say it because nothing is fully permanent, it should be documented, and it should be searchable for the team. And so the link that\u2019s included in the show notes is probably 10% of what we have documented in Confluence.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\"><p>We have a lot of internal process, procedures, and whether that\u2019s operational-related or development-related within Confluence, and so as a new team member, it is your encyclopedia for how we get things done at Hotjar. And it\u2019s super important that this be documented.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p>And people oftentimes, I think, say, \u201cWell, it\u2019s because you\u2019re remote and you need to have that.\u201d And it\u2019s like, \u201cNo. You\u2019re crazy if you don\u2019t think, you know, co-located or brick and mortar place should have stuff like this documented. Yeah. It takes away\u2026 A, it infuses back with our core values of being transparent, so we document how we do performance reviews and how they\u2019re there and that\u2019s all available for somebody to see.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\"><p>And everybody should see how they\u2019re gonna be evaluated and what the criteria are and when that changes will be able to both be alerted to that. And so those are the kind of things that we put on Confluence.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p>It really circles right back to our core values of transparency and then operations. But within engineering, it\u2019s really core to, how do you make sure that everybody is following the same procedures when it comes to code reviews or when they\u2019re doing integrations or anything like that? These aspects are really important to have documented and searchable.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Jovian:<\/strong>\u00a0Right. I\u2019m just curious. So, let\u2019s say in the engineering team, like you mentioned, when it comes to like code quality or certain guidelines, who are responsible to maintain the documentation for the team, if that makes sense? Is it, like, some kind of engineering lead?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Ken:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. It depends on the type of documentation, right? So, if the\u2026 So, first off, anybody at Hotjar can edit almost any page on Confluence.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Jovian:<\/strong>\u00a0I see.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Ken:<\/strong>\u00a0So, in a broad sense, it\u2019s everybody\u2019s job to update. So, if there\u2019s something that\u2019s out of date, and stuff gets out of date, everything needs constant maintenance, then do it. And so, obviously, if it\u2019s, \u201cHey, all engineers are gonna start doing X,\u201d then that\u2019s probably something an engineering lead or\u2026<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Jovian:<\/strong>\u00a0I see.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Ken:<\/strong>\u00a0\u2026an engineering director should be updating. But if it\u2019s, like, you know, \u201cOh, this is not where we store this anymore or this is not how we do builds,\u201d those types of things are tweaked all the time by the entire team.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Jovian:<\/strong>\u00a0Right. So, it\u2019s kind of, like, let\u2019s say when it comes to, again, as an example, like, Engineering Lead to somewhat be, like, own the documentation processes. And when it comes to like the whole company-wide operations, it\u2019s you as the VP of Operations and with People Ops Liaison.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Ken:<\/strong>\u00a0Very much so.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Jovian:<\/strong>\u00a0Right. That makes sense. So, yeah, I think in this podcast, I think you\u2019re the very first\u2026 I hope I\u2019m not wrong. But I think you are the very first, like, ops person, which is really familiar with, like, really get down and dirty when it comes to logistics and documentation and whatnot and, of course, day-to-day operations. I\u2019m just curious since you\u2019ve been in Hotjar for a while now, is there any mistakes that you\u2019ve made and learned from as the VP of Operations of a remote company or probably just as a company in general?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Ken:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, absolutely. So, I hate to say it, but I\u2019ll circle back to our core values of\u00a0<em>learn by doing<\/em>.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\"><p>Part of what we have within that core value is the fact that we\u2019re gonna make mistakes and that\u2019s okay. The important part is, did you learn from them? Did you make improvements upon that?<\/p><\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p>So, yeah. Hell, yeah, we\u2019ve made a lot of mistakes. I\u2019ve made a lot of mistakes. The biggest mistake, I would say, overall I was recently doing a personal retrospective myself for 2019 and I think it\u2019s the biggest mistake I\u2019ve made in certain aspects is not hiring fast enough from the aspect of as we grow, as we mature, as we continue to introduce, you know, greater accountability for our team as well as for our business and for our customers, it\u2019s keeping up with the hiring that\u2019s necessary for that and looking beyond where we are today instead to where we\u2019re going tomorrow and beyond and building that strategy out.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>So, I would say that\u2019s my own personal, most recent learning. But we have done a number of different, you know, mistakes from not being as clear about what is a hardcore process, you know, where thou shalt not do something versus, \u201cHey, this is our recommendation, but feel free to roll your own and have some flexibility with this guideline.\u201d And so I think it\u2019s really important that we\u2019ve evolved to the aspect of making sure that that\u2019s very, very clear as to what is a hardcore process we must follow versus a guideline that is flexible.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Jovian:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. That is really hard, isn\u2019t it? Because now that you say it, it\u2019s sometimes hard because there are things that is kind of like in the middle. Like, it shouldn\u2019t be like a strict process because it will feel bad, but in a way, if it\u2019s too loose, then it\u2019s also bad for the company. Right.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>So, I think I talked to Laura Roeder from MeetEdgar a while ago. So, her approach is that, for example, there are things like that that kind of like vague and there\u2019s some nuance in it. For example, if\u2026 She gave me as an example. If someone goes on a business trip, and then the company will pay for their accommodations. If there is some kind of, like\u2026there\u2019s kind of like norm of the hotel rate or what is the highest can I go? Right? Sometimes people are just too afraid or companies are just too afraid to be, \u201cNo, this is the ceiling,\u201d or something like, we are afraid to be seen as cheap and whatnot. But yes, those kind of things, that nuance, it\u2019s really hard to decide.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Ken:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, it is because you also you don\u2019t\u2026you need to balance the, this is the way we do it and we\u2019re flexible with the\u2026actually, we can\u2019t be flexible on this. There\u2019s also the aspect of, like you said earlier, do we really need to document this? If you\u2019re asking yourself that question, the answer is probably yes, but because you think, \u201cWell, this is common sense. Who wouldn\u2019t expect this?\u201d But at some point, the situation arises where you probably should document that question.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Jovian:<\/strong>\u00a0Right. And it goes back to kind of like the theme that we have with transparency. Even the goal to be more transparent it\u2019s like incremental. Sometimes it\u2019s not easy to be just transparent, but the things [inaudible 00:44:02] should be transparent on this or not. And it goes back to the company vision, core value, and so on. So, that\u2019s why having an ops person is really important. It\u2019s an unsexy job, but it\u2019s very underrated especially when it comes to remote companies it is that important.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Ken:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, yeah. And it\u2019s important to have\u2026 Getting back to that accountability. So, across operations in Hotjar, everybody defines operations differently. But operations at Hotjar encompasses people ops, it encompasses financing, it encompasses compliance.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so within each of those areas, we have a lead who\u2019s responsible for that and that lead is responsible for making sure our finance documentation is up to date. How do we do expense reports? When do we do monthly reporting? And where\u2019s that available? Compliance. What about GDPR? How are we\u2026 What are the controls that we need to update and inform people about across the board? Yeah.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>So, it\u2019s really important that you have discreet ownership, but yet, the aspect of who\u2019s responsible for making sure we meet GDPR compliance, well, really the entire company is, who\u2019s accountable is that lead. And so it is making sure that everybody has the flexibility to be responsible, but ultimately accountable.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Jovian:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. I am tempted to go through that rabbit hole to talk about the finance, compliance, but I\u2019ll probably need like a second part of this podcast, and we have, like, six minutes left. Okay, Ken, thank you so much for your time today. I really learned a lot. And how can people find you or learn more about Hotjar online?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Ken:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, awesome. So, first off, we are hiring. We\u2019re always hiring. So, if you go to hotjar.com, there\u2019s a career section and you can find out all about the perks that we offer, the way we work, information associated to our hiring process in a transparent way. And I encourage you if you\u2019re interested and looking for engineering, design, development, marketing, operations, customer service, check us out, please. For me, in particular, you can find out more information about me on LinkedIn as well as also email. So, email is ken@hotjar.com.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Jovian:<\/strong>\u00a0Awesome. Thank you so much, Ken.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Ken:<\/strong>\u00a0Awesome. I enjoyed it. Thanks a lot. Great questions.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>You can also try <\/em><a href=\"https:\/\/arc.dev\/\">Arc<\/a><em>, your<\/em><em> shortcut to the world\u2019s best remote talent:<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>\u26a1\ufe0f Access 450,000 top developers, designers, and marketers <br>\u26a1\ufe0f <em>Vetted and ready to interview<\/em><br>\u26a1\ufe0f Freelance or full-time<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/arc.dev\"><\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/arc.dev\"><strong>Try Arc and hire top talent now \u2192<\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>VP of Operations at Hotjar, Ken Weary, shares Hotjar&#8217;s asynchronous communication productivity boost, &#8220;Tribes&#8221; and 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